In this episode of Beyond Page One, host Mickey interviews Sanjay Joshi, a top-tier corporate lawyer with over two decades of experience in advising technology-driven companies on complex cross-border M&A and capital market deals. Sanjay shares insights into his journey in corporate law, the importance of mentorship, and the unique challenges faced in the ag tech, AI, and digital asset sectors. He discusses the evolving landscape of international capital markets, the intersection of law and innovation in Canada’s tech ecosystem, and the differences in advising startups versus established companies. Sanjay emphasizes the significance of building a personal brand, staying updated on legal trends, and the future impact of AI on corporate law.

Listen On Spotify- https://open.spotify.com/episode/61P94CJaaz30JAA06yDD5o?si=qL4y0h0UT8mvnRpqrSvy0Q

If you have any questions or would like to connect with Sanjay Joshi, visit-

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sanjay-joshi-lawyer/

• Sanjay’s early interest in law shaped his career path.
• Mentorship is crucial for growth in the legal field.
• Ag tech and digital assets present unique legal challenges.
• Staying informed is essential in a rapidly changing industry.
• Navigating international capital markets requires understanding client needs.
• Innovation in tech is vital for Canada’s economic future.
• Advising startups involves recognizing their risk dynamics.
• Building a personal brand is important for legal professionals.
• Referrals are a key source of new clients.
• Continuous learning is necessary to stay relevant in law.

Mickey (00:00)

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to Beyond Page One. I’m your host, Mickey, and today’s guest is Sanjay Joshi. Top tier corporate lawyer and partner at Dentons. Spent more than last two decades advising technology-driven companies on complex cross-border &A and capital market deals across North America and Europe. Deep experience in everything from AI to digital assets and biotech. Sanjay brings a unique

legal lens ⁓ to business strategy and innovation. I’m super excited to have him. Welcome to the podcast today, Sanjay. ⁓ Let’s start at beginning. What drew you to corporate law and how did your early career shape your focus on ⁓ &A and tech-driven finance?

Sanjay Joshi (00:47)

Thank you. ⁓ First, Mickey, thanks for having me. I appreciate being here and I appreciate the chance to chat with you. What started in terms of corporate law and my experience or my interest in it was I’ve always been interested in law and being a lawyer from a young age. was something I was interested in in high school even and took some pre-law courses to the extent they’re offered back in those days. ⁓ So my interest was peaked in that respect. But then also when I left university undergraduate

university, didn’t actually go straight to law school. I worked for a year and a half in capital markets. I worked as a securities trader in online discount brokerage that still exists today, but in the past it was all on the phone. was, ⁓ you may still do this, ⁓ discount trading. So I had to take the Canadian securities course, the options course, the ethics exam, and I became a trader such that it was back then.

And I did that for a year and a bit, almost two years. First thing it made me do is want to go back to school. But then also instilled in me all this understanding of the capital markets generally and sort of how they work. And so when I went to school, I kind of focused on business law and other issues. When I went to law school, I mean, I focused on business courses. And when I left, I was lucky enough to article at a firm in Vancouver.

with a gentleman who at that time used to annotate the BC Securities Act. And so he was my principal. I worked closely with him, helped him with annotations and new additions. ⁓ really because of my background in that, small amount of experience in capital markets, very small amount of experience, and then also ⁓ aided by sort of his mentorship and the fact that he was all securities all the time, that kind of got me focused in ⁓

this area of law and since my articling days I have been doing almost nothing else. I’ve never done moot court, I’ve never attended court in any real capacity. It’s always been corporate law and corporate finance and &A. So that’s how I fell into this area of practice.

Mickey (02:49)

Yeah.

Very cool.

Very cool. You’ve been recognized as a rising star and one of Canada’s leading corporate lawyers. ⁓ What personal and or professional milestones helped you get there?

Sanjay Joshi (03:08)

So it’s gratifying and to hear that as they came about and I was excited as sort of these ⁓ accolades would arrive. But the truth is it’s mostly as a result of working with other senior lawyers as I was coming up. Mentorship, I mentioned that previously, not just during my articles, but also as a junior associate here in Toronto, there was a number of lawyers who

would bring me in not only on transactions and work, also in terms of connections, building a practice, ⁓ getting more and better work from other individual lawyers and clients in the firm and across the city. And sort of those milestones really just occurred through trying to learn as much as I could from the lawyers that I was working with at the time. You know, when you start off, ⁓

people told me, I don’t know if people still say this, but it’s true, as a junior associate in one of these larger firms, your clients are the other lawyers in the firm. Your clients are the partners in the firm. So don’t worry about running around trying to find new business at that stage. Just try to understand your craft, your skills, and support those ahead of you as much as possible. And eventually you’ll find yourself in that position, hopefully, and able to pass that on. So I’m not sure if that answers your question completely, but sort of as the milestones would occur through

achievement with other individuals mostly, in all cases with me.

Mickey (04:34)

Yeah,

I like the collaborative approach. That’s awesome. ⁓

Sanjay Joshi (04:37)

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you

never get anywhere on your own, especially in an industry like this. And you certainly don’t come out of school knowing much about anything. So you have to learn it on the job or through individuals that you’re working with. And that sort of mentorship is key in getting further along for anybody, I think, actually.

Mickey (04:57)

That’s awesome and I’m sure our listeners are gonna, you it’s important for them to hear that, right? Especially new grads that are coming out, they’re they’re hungry, right? They wanna do it all themselves, but you know, you gotta learn. You gotta figure out how did, you know, the people that you look up to, how did they do it? Get that mentorship, right? 100%.

Sanjay Joshi (05:06)

Yeah.

Exactly, exactly.

Mickey (05:18)

You’re very active in the ag tech, the AI and digital asset space. What makes these sectors uniquely challenging from a legal perspective?

Sanjay Joshi (05:28)

Simple, many things, but the one that I’ll focus on now is the sort of newness of those industries in the grand scheme of things. ag tech technology has been around for many years, know, dot com boom was in 2000 and stuff. But the fact that everything keeps moving and changing constantly and there is, ⁓ I mean, clearly today we talk about things like digital assets and Bitcoin and blockchain, all that, that wasn’t around even seven, 10 years ago.

Mickey (05:56)

Yeah.

Sanjay Joshi (05:56)

But

there was technology around back then. There was obviously technology clients who are different… ⁓ In capital markets, the paperwork is generally the same, agnostic over the industry. It could be mining, could be ⁓ banking, but the types of documents we prepare is generally the same because you’re trying to achieve the same result. But the industry specializations are brand new and changing all the time. So the fact that there is new regulation coming on board for things like digital assets and Bitcoin, and then it changes again very quickly.

Those are the things that make it very challenging because you have no idea really what’s going to happen in some of these industries. Two years, five years down the road. But that’s a lot of that is the same for many different industries. Mining the city and the country went through a large period, a long period of ⁓ cannabis related corporate and corporate finance work. So that was very new, obviously, at the time that people muddled through it and the laws change and regulations change.

Mickey (06:48)

Yeah.

Sanjay Joshi (06:56)

but you figure your way through it. And now there’s that whole new area with AI and digital assets in particular, which is clearly new and evolving.

Mickey (07:06)

Yeah, are you seeing a lot of that coming through your practice right now? Yeah.

Sanjay Joshi (07:08)

Yes, yeah, yeah, absolutely,

absolutely. There’s every day today, we’re working on a digital asset deal. so technology is, I hate to put it this way, technology obviously is hot in terms of capital market and raising of capital. Ag tech and the rest of it are a little bit more operating businesses where you worry about employees, capex, revenues and that kind of stuff. That’s not, it’s still

Mickey (07:30)

Mm-hmm.

Sanjay Joshi (07:38)

technology-driven but it’s more of a real business. The other ones are a bit more speculative but they’re also ⁓ obviously real. There’s large dollars attached but the industry itself is ever-changing. Obviously, ever-changing. Like week to week, month to month.

Mickey (07:52)

Yeah.

How do you keep up with the ever-changing landscape? Obviously, you must be staying up to date on it, reading any sort of journals or anything. Is there anything that you can suggest to some of our listeners to how to keep their finger on the pulse?

Sanjay Joshi (08:09)

Yeah, the voraciously reading everything that comes across your computer in terms of things that you’re working on. You have to be up to date on the news and what’s happening, ⁓ especially these days. You have to know exactly what’s happening in terms of the daily news stories. But there’s no other substitute than reading and immersing yourself in these industries as much as possible. You know, we were very lucky these days.

Mickey (08:26)

Yeah.

Sanjay Joshi (08:37)

in that you don’t have to go to library and find a journal or speak to an expert. And you can find all of that as long as you’re ⁓ diligent enough to poke through to respected legal sources or new sources and find the right information. But it’s all out there. And the only way to keep up to date on it is to go through it daily, daily and weekly, weekends. Make it your hobby, make it your interests so that you enjoy learning about these things as they come up.

Because you never actually did add to that a lot of the stuff that crosses your newsfeed. You don’t know how it ⁓ impacts your practice or your business until a couple of weeks later. And then you mentioned it to somebody who lives in that world and they’re impressed that you actually even know it. But yeah, you have to stay up to date on all these sorts of things. If that’s your area of practice or your interest.

Mickey (09:06)

However

That’s great advice, This actually leads really well into my next question. Helping your clients navigate international capital markets when regulations are changing so quickly, look at the landscape ⁓ between the US and Canada right now, right, and all of that. ⁓ So how do you help them navigate those challenges?

Sanjay Joshi (09:47)

A lot of time is spent just discussing the issues that they’re presented with and giving your opinion. Like, listen, nobody has to take your opinion if you’re a lawyer or a banker or anything like that, but they want to hear it. they’re not oftentimes, know, sophisticated clients, especially ones that use large firms or do large transactions like this, they know that

Mickey (09:59)

Mm-hmm.

Sanjay Joshi (10:14)

they don’t know everything. That’s actually half the battle is recognizing that you’re hiring somebody to do something. So you might as well listen to it. Now they may not take all your advice all the time, but there’s certainly a benefit to them hearing what you think about certain issues. And so the way you work through it is that actually discussing and trying to get, yourself in their shoes with a little bit of extra knowledge about the law or what could potentially happen in the future on the downside.

you know, as an aside, I’ll say like one of the things I say often to clients is there’s a reason I do this and you do that is because I always look for the problems. what is the, uh, when’s the other shoe going to drop the glasses half empty, that kind of thing. It’s not the best way to live your life, but it is a good way to assist somebody who’s a bit of an entrepreneur and know, forward thinker and risk taker and all those sorts of things. You want to be that as well, but to a certain extent. And, and so that it, to those that appreciate hearing something that they’re not expecting, or maybe they don’t fully.

agree with, that’s a great relationship to have with a client. But knowing always that they don’t always take your advice, but they oftentimes appreciate it. Maybe not in the moment, but certainly after the fact that a lot of times they will.

Mickey (11:09)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, that’s great. ⁓ There’s obviously an intersect between law and innovation in Canada’s tech ecosystem right now. What excites you most about it in that fast-paced environment?

Sanjay Joshi (11:40)

For me, it’s the country and the city in particular since sort of slowdown in the cannabis capital markets world, which still exists, but it’s not as a frenzy as it was before in terms of everybody doing everything all the time. But it’s much closer tied to ⁓ very high stakes and impressive technology and

Mickey (11:50)

Mm-hmm.

Sanjay Joshi (12:07)

the schools in this country and sort of the types of ⁓ graduates that it’s putting out. This is really good for the future is what I’m saying. It’s like the fact that these sorts of industries I feel are creative to the Canadian economy and our society as opposed to any others in the past. This one in particular, capital markets transactions that focus on technological achievements, whether it’s in digital assets or ag tech as we discussed before, or even any other things like AI through Waterloo.

and all these other areas of tech heaviness is a really good thing for this country, for our kids, for our future, while also making money for individuals in the economy today. So I think it’s a really good time to be ⁓ in Canada and doing these sorts of things. This is not resource heavy. This is not extracting resources from the environment, which is a fine business. And I appreciate that as part of our

history in Canada in terms of our economy. But as you’re asking about technology and why that’s exciting, I really think it’s not just a good business opportunity, but I think it’s good long-term for the country and frankly our society generally speaking.

Mickey (13:22)

I couldn’t agree more. ⁓ How do you approach advising ⁓ high growth startup versus more established tech companies? Is there a different strategy?

Sanjay Joshi (13:31)

Yeah, I mean, oftentimes, like I said, it’s having conversations and trying to understand what they’re trying to do. But you, I mean, me or any individual professional, whether it’s a lawyer, banker or an accountant that works with these people, need to recognize that the risk dynamics is very different between those two places. A startup will need to take many more risks than ⁓ you would see in an established business for obvious reasons. And you just have to work around that. You can’t keep telling them, don’t do something.

It’s not helpful. Not only would it not get you further along in your relationship, but it’s not helpful for what they’re doing. So you can’t explain to them all the things that, you know, the biggest company in their space does that that’s not helpful. They already know what those companies do. You need to help them sort of navigate in an entrepreneurial way with, as I said previously, with a mind on what could go wrong, what are the shoes to drop? What are the minefields? What’s the problem? But recognize that they’re going down that road anyway, oftentimes.

Mickey (14:14)

Mm-hmm.

Sanjay Joshi (14:29)

Like it’s just going to happen. They’re doing this, whatever they think you’re going to say. So you just have to feel like you have to work your way through and finding a good path for them. Again, rarely ever, I’m sure it happens, but rarely is the answer always as firm no, you can’t do that. There are times when a client asks you to do a couple of things you can’t do, like it won’t work. But there are other ways to get to 90 % of the way there or some of the way there or to a place that takes you 90 % of the way there.

So it’s that kind of entrepreneurial advice, which I think any lawyer working for any size company would say that they would try to bring to the table, which I think is very true. But I think maybe what I’m getting at is the fact that one would need to recognize that the other, that your client in this case, has a completely different set of priorities than other clients that you work with based on their personal situation, their age.

the type of business they’re moving at the speed at which they need to get to market their competitors. It’s all completely changing and different all the time. If that makes sense, the way I described it.

Mickey (15:32)

Yeah, no, that doesn’t

make sense. That’s well answered. In a space where visibility matters, how important is your digital and thought leadership presence, especially being a partner at a global firm like Dentons? I guess what I’m asking is, what do you do for yourself, Sanjay, to kind of help you grow your book of business within your own brand, right?

Sanjay Joshi (15:57)

I, you know, that’s a great question. And I’m of a certain age that I’m, ⁓ that I didn’t use obviously social media or the internet, you know, in my early part of my career, although I think it’s ubiquitous and it’s absolutely necessary for all young people starting out today in every area to have LinkedIn accounts, to have, you know, social media profiles, to have a person, have a professional presence on the web somewhere. It wasn’t like that for me generally. was, we, law firms would have a website with your picture on it, maybe a few words about yourself.

Mickey (16:10)

Mm-hmm.

Sanjay Joshi (16:27)

you put up some deals in the past. That’s pretty good. ⁓ But it was mostly focused on things like speaking engagements, client events, ⁓ socializing in different industries that could get you those referrals. But ⁓ I think things are very different for me now than they would be for a younger person today, just because of the need to get out there, as you say, to make a technological footprint in terms of your profile.

I have found what I’ve found in terms of my own practice, my own life in getting clients, one of the best pathways to that is referrals. Is referrals from other clients or other lawyers and even friends and associates. If you think about it, and this may not be answering the question you’re asking because you’re asking about the public profile, but I’ll take it there. In the sense of building a practice, which is what you were asking about, I always think about

associates, ⁓ business associates, ⁓ partners, colleagues, social friends. These are people sometimes, oftentimes they get into dinners, birthdays, weddings that you’ll never get into, that I’ll never get into other part of the other side of the world. But oftentimes they’re talking to people about shit. People ask them, what do you do? If they, if they have a good relationship, you left them with the impression that, I would never, I would never be offended if you drop my name to one of your friends at some of these things who need a lawyer.

Like it’s as simple as that. And then when they’re in a meeting or they’re at a dinner or they’re at a lunch, it could be in Europe, it could be in the US or Vancouver, somebody will ask and they’ll say it and they’ll say it to 10 people and one of them will eventually call you. And you got to think about it at like, you could be sitting at home watching TV with your family and somebody’s out there working for you. You don’t even know what’s happening. And they’re out sort of talking and they’re talking to people that actually need the type of services that we provide, right? It’s a much more targeted approach. I’m not saying it’s the only way to

Mickey (17:58)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Sanjay Joshi (18:26)

to build a practice. But I think it’s one of the best ways because a lot of times people just, one referral is enough that they need from someone they trust. If someone I trust, trust this guy, then I’m gonna trust this guy too. And it’s just almost that quick and that easy. So I think a good, in terms of business development and building a practice, a many pronged approach would be best using social media, using ⁓ online presence.

but making sure that everybody you interact with, ⁓ you leave with a good professional experience so that they can tell other people that they meet and then they know that maybe you should call this person in the future. And it’s the clearest path to frankly paying clients because it’s only said and done with people who need that help and they need it from somebody that they feel that they can trust quickly.

Mickey (19:20)

100 % I could not agree more. It’s I mean, it’s the backbone of our business as well, right? The word of mouth the referral, you know, you could do good unto somebody else if you do good work They’re so much likely to refer you and I call it a lot of the time being top of mind, right? So if someone if someone within your circle, you know is talking about lawyers Who is your friend or your business colleague you want? I like you want you to be top of mind for them like instantly say your name without even having to think about it, right?

Sanjay Joshi (19:47)

And some of the best deals come through simply just your phone just rings because other people are talking about you and you didn’t even know it was happening. And you think you didn’t do anything, it just fell on your lap, but it didn’t, it didn’t, it didn’t just happen. Months, maybe years of time building relationships with people that maybe never need your services, but they’re in the business community. They’re out saying your name, you know, four or five times a week and you don’t even know what’s happening. And eventually that work itself out.

Mickey (19:54)

Yeah. Exactly.

years.

100%. How do you personally stay sharp and ahead of the legal trends and tech trends? Obviously reading, you said it a lot. Is there anything else that you do or that you can share?

Sanjay Joshi (20:25)

Well, mean, obviously a lot of that. then the other thing is, and LinkedIn is actually pretty great for this because Denton’s in particular puts out a lot of ⁓ educational material ⁓ through LinkedIn and other places on the website. All law firms do this, but I’ll just speak about mine. That gives updates on different changes in the law, different aspects of ⁓ new regulations and rules, the changes in Canada and elsewhere.

You got to eat all that up. And it doesn’t mean you got to print it out and read it, you know, line by line and take notes necessarily. But you should, I keep saying you, one should always be aware of things that are coming from the firm in terms of even if it’s a practice, an area of law that you have no connection with. But you should know that the firm is doing this and somebody’s looking at it because you’ll be in a meeting or in a social situation and that will come up and you can quickly make reference to it. So I think not letting any of those sort of

emails that one may consider spam or sort of unrelated to my day to day, take it in quickly, 10 seconds, 30 seconds, just read it. Figure out what the headline is because it’ll come up at some point in the future, especially spending time with people in business. And then you can always go back and revisit it. But it’s a really good luxury that people didn’t have 15, 20 years ago. So you should take advantage of it if it ever approaches.

Mickey (21:39)

Hmm.

Great answer. What are some trends that you see ⁓ shaping corporate law and tech over the next, let’s say, three to five years?

Sanjay Joshi (21:58)

⁓ I mean, God, who knows? I think obviously a lot of people have spoken recently about AI sort of taking over different parts of ⁓ many different industries. And whenever you see a tweet or a little online note from somebody or even somebody on TV, on a business channel, the law is throwing law, you know, it’s going to eliminate all these industries, including law. And it’s always in there. I never fully understood that or I certainly don’t.

Mickey (22:09)

Mm-hmm.

Sanjay Joshi (22:27)

completely believe that because a lot of what we do as I described before isn’t pushing through a document, it’s having conversations and helping people sort of figure out their own, ⁓ trying to figure out what the problem is that they’re trying to solve. A lot of times people don’t even know what the problem is that they’re trying to solve. They’re so all over the place that they can’t figure out what’s more important than the other thing. I’m not sure I can necessarily help that. But the point is I think that it’s certainly gonna change a lot of what we do in terms of pushing out documents.

Mickey (22:47)

Yeah.

Sanjay Joshi (22:54)

drafting paragraphs. A lot of times we were the only place you could come. When I say we, mean lawyers generally, you could come to get like a paragraph on a confidentiality agreement or a non-compete or something. Now it won’t be the best, but people can just Google it and go on an AI app and try to figure out a clause about anything, write a first refusal on something. And so there’s little things like that, but they’re not,

They get you maybe 60, 70 % of the way there, but the truth is what you really pay for when you go to a lawyer or any professional is you want that extra five, last five, 10 % that you can’t get yourself or through other individuals. And that’s what you’re really paying for. It’s not the meat of the matter. That can always be found, but it’s making sure that it actually works in the future, because when everything goes wrong, that’s what they’re going to worry about is the last 10%. So again, not sure it’s getting to where you were asking, but what I would think is

Mickey (23:39)

Yeah.

Sanjay Joshi (23:51)

There is obviously changes that are going to occur with technology in our industry, but I don’t think it’s going to ⁓ supplant a good lawyer, whether it’s a corporate lawyer and certainly not a litigator. I don’t know how you fix that with AI. There’s no chance. these are people who sit there and think about things that you don’t think about and help work through a lot of different issues that come up ⁓ in real time even. So I think there’s obviously going to be changes in the industry.

I don’t know if there’s gonna be as many changes as people outside the industry expect there to be.

Mickey (24:22)

Yeah, no, and I agree with you. I think it’s very much going to help or assist with the tools and the process part of your job. But at the end of the day, it’s people to people when you’re trying to solve a problem. AI is not going to be able to do that for you.

Sanjay Joshi (24:34)

No,

no, and it can’t tell you to do this first and then do that because of this guy will do this and then the other thing will happen there. Like those are those are conversations you need to have between people. And to your point earlier, it depends on the place of ⁓ the status of that business, sort of where it is in the world and where it is in its growth cycle to those things change from minute to minute. They don’t are from sorry, from day to day. They don’t ⁓ they can’t be sort of supplanted with some some technology.

Frankly, those are good judgment calls. You need people with good judgment to make them eventually.

Mickey (25:06)

Yeah,

a hundred percent. was, was talking to my friend who was an accountant and we were talking about AI and you know, how is that going to affect just overall globally? Like my, my, my business, his business. And he was saying to me, he said, Mickey, look when, when Excel spreadsheets came out, you know, accountants freaked out to like our jobs done. Right. The people that conformed and used it as a tool did really well. The people that decided that that’s it. They were tired. They closed the shop and that, and

was it for them. So you got to be vigilant and you got to conform to the tools that are coming out especially.

Sanjay Joshi (25:41)

Yeah,

yeah. mean, there’s careers that exist today that never existed 100 years ago, but that’s not because people aren’t working. They’re just doing it in a different way. So I think this sort of industry, your industry, they’ll all be changed, but they’re not going to be ended in any real way.

Mickey (25:48)

Exactly.

Thank

Yeah, 100%. One of the last questions I have for you today is really, is what do you know now that you wish you’d know that you know when you were starting out in corporate law?

Sanjay Joshi (26:13)

⁓ I need to think about that for a second. what do ⁓ many things I say it to people all the time. Youth is wasted on the young. Right. Like if I knew then what I know now, everything would be different. it’s that point. I think I think I kind of touched on it before, which is that as you’re coming up, your clients are the other lawyers in the firm, because even myself. And this is going back many years to early 2000s and stuff.

Mickey (26:26)

Yeah.

Sanjay Joshi (26:43)

As soon as you become a lawyer, as soon as you become a corporate lawyer, you think you need to bring in clients or you need to go to this event and get those business cards and all. And that’s all important and good. And it’s done a lot for me, but really the, and it’s a mix, right? Don’t leave that behind. That’s socializing aspect, the ability to get your name out there. And as I said, get referrals from other people in the community is really important. Try to leave everyone with a good impression of yourself and have a good professional reputation.

work will find you in some sense. But the other one that’s a really good way to get good paying, ⁓ well experienced work is by senior lawyers in your firm or in your community. They can somehow officially or unofficially mentor you or bring you on in deals. If I knew, I think I would have spent slightly less time ⁓ outside of the firm.

than I did and I would spend more time inside the firm trying to work with senior lawyers as a junior associate to not only sharpen my skills, but also be brought into deals where I’m closer to established businesses rather than on the outside. So I think that’s one of the things that if you’re a junior lawyer coming up in a larger firm in a fairly fair sized city, take advantage of the fact that there’s people all around you that done exactly what you do and frankly know a lot more than you do.

And if you’re helpful, they’re willing to give you the keys to the kingdom. and, like, you know, oftentimes when the phone rings and you’re young, it’s like you complain and stuff like that. Like just wait for the phone, not to ring for three days and you’ll, you’ll even start complaining more. like when they’re there to like the reward for good work is more work. And so it may feel like a problem, but it’s actually, you’re being gifted a lot of experience and opportunity. And it’s tough to see that when you’re in the middle of it, but.

That is, to your point, in retrospect, a really good opportunity to be brought in on things like that. And then things should always get harder. Like if it’s not hard, you’re not moving forward in not only in life, but in your career. every deal you work on should be slightly different. If it becomes boring or you’re really good at it or you think you’re good at it, but simply it’s just a repeat of the past. And that’s a good way to make money and it’s fine. No one’s denying that. But don’t, you know,

Mickey (28:49)

Yep.

Sanjay Joshi (29:05)

curse the fact that this new deal has this extra hook or that lever. Those are good things because you put them in your backpack and you’ll use them in the future in a way that no one ever saw. So those sorts of things like to spend more time internally, ⁓ working with senior lawyers to help support them to the extent that they can. And that’s why the makeup of a firm is really important. But if it fosters that, then you have sort of generational talent coming through these long existing corporate firms that bring people along. ⁓

because they’ve frankly been trained on site and they know exactly what they’re doing to the extent that that firm wants it done in that way.

Mickey (29:44)

That is fantastic advice and I can end it right there. No, that is really helpful and I think a lot of the listeners that are gonna be listening to this are younger lawyers, right? So I think taking that step back and realizing that where you are is a gift and work and learn from the people that are above you. That’s the only way you’re gonna make it. ⁓ Sanjay, thank you so much for coming down today, man. I really appreciate it. ⁓

Sanjay Joshi (30:07)

Yeah. ⁓

Mickey (30:13)

⁓ We’ll link everything, all your social profiles and everything below or above depending on what platform you’re watching on and feel free to reach out to him. I’m sure he if you have any questions he’ll be happy to help and answer them and steer you in the right direction.

Sanjay Joshi (30:25)

I appreciate you reaching out and thank you for the time. was a pleasure. All right. Cheers.

Mickey (30:28)

Thank you.

Cheers.