Mickey (00:07)
Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. My name is Mickey. the host of Beyond Page One podcast. I’m thrilled to announce today’s guest. It is Dr. Mark. He’s a true pioneer in the world of restorative and cosmetic dentistry, and he’s joining us on the podcast today. Dr. Mark is a visionary and an inventor of the Snap on Smile. It’s a groundbreaking and pain-free restorative appliance that has transformed thousands of lives. Beyond his practice, he’s expanded his impact as the host of the Dentistry Beyond the Numbers.
Podcast dedicated to mastering the business and clinical aspects of dentistry for professionals at every stage of their career I’m really excited truly inspired to have them to as today on today’s podcast Welcome to the podcast great to have you with us again really to start Here’s a share a little bit about your journey into the field of dentistry and especially your decision to pursue the restorative and cosmetic side of the world
Dr. Marc Liechtung (00:48)
Thank you so much.
Yeah,
it is, it’s circa many years ago. And, you know, I was very blessed to have a very successful dad. May he rest in peace. I mean, I’m not going to go this other side of the track journey, but my dad was a pretty tough guy. And I remember one holiday, sitting at the table. I was maybe 19 years old about to embark in college and all that stuff and deciding what to do. And I figured I would be
playing a lot of basketball like I like to do and doing things and hanging out. And I was a pretty good student, but a little bit goal-less at that time because I figured like my brother, I would go into the business. And sitting at that holiday table, my father said, you know, there is no room in the business. I’m not going to take you as the next, as the third son in. I’m going to tell you, got to go fend for yourself.
Obviously he didn’t say it in such a callous way, but it sounded that way, you know, and you so I volunteered in three things I figured I wanted a volunteer in an accounting firm a cardiovascular office and a dental clinic in New York City, that’s where I’m from and two out of the three one Face death that day that I was there which is the cardio clinic and the other one was boring as heck and when I walked into the dental office
Mickey (01:52)
Yeah.
Dr. Marc Liechtung (02:13)
or the dental clinic at Mount Sinai. The music was playing. There were men, there were guys, there were girls. It was so much fun. People walking around. said, this is for me. And I went home and I told my dad, think I’m gonna go into dentistry. And he had a good friend who was pretty successful. And he said, that sounds great. Thus I started my program or my process in becoming a dentist. The snap-on. You know, I’d like to, when my legacy is over, be known for a number of things.
Mickey (02:20)
you
Dr. Marc Liechtung (02:43)
I really would. I think that’s what we have in our careers as professionals in any field is our legacy. We make our money, we support our family, we have a great, God willing, we have a good time and we understand work-life balance. But in the end, mean, my legacy is what we remember when we’re off this earth. And Snap-on is an awesome problem fixer.
And that’s how I looked at it and that’s how I developed it.
Mickey (03:09)
Yeah, what was your decision? You finished dentistry, you worked as a dentist. What was your decision to go pursue the restorative and the cosmetic side of the field?
Dr. Marc Liechtung (03:20)
Yeah, that’s
a great question. I went to University of Pennsylvania and you know, dad, mom had a big influence in my life like most people. And I came home after doing a fellowship at Penn and ready to go into the perioprost program. I got in, I was working there, I cutting, I was doing temporaries during the weekend as a job in one of the offices for a mentor of mine. When I came home, my father asked the proverbial question. He said, look, I’m not a professional.
grew up in the real estate business, said, what do they call you now? I said, what do mean? He goes, well, what do they call you? I said, well, they call me a dentist. He goes, what do they call you in three years of dual specialty? I said, a dentist. He goes, why don’t you try being a dentist and then see if you want to go back? So I started doing cosmetics and seeing the beauty of changing people’s Change a smile, change a life. And it was.
Unbelievable. So much so that I’m going to reveal something. That when I had my teeth whatever, whitened, bleached, veneered, crowned, I’m not going to reveal, but when I had my smile enhanced, I couldn’t believe it took me so long to do it. Because it really did give me the confidence, made me look younger, but more importantly, just stamped the approval of what we do for a living in my field in dentistry, in that it really did.
Mickey (04:32)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Marc Liechtung (04:41)
just give me just added confidence when you walk in a room and you smile when you talk when you’re out to dinner it just gives you some sort of confidence that eyes, ears, nose that I can’t imagine giving us. I mean that’s really what motivated me to go into that.
Mickey (04:59)
That’s an awesome way to put it and I can’t agree more with you. When you see somebody smiling, it makes you smile, So making people smile is contagious.
Dr. Marc Liechtung (05:06)
Absolutely.
They do, you know, and when they say when you smile
at someone, the whole world is smiling back. mean, think about a great looking person, male or female walking into a room and not smiling and then that same person smiling. The whole room is said differently. And I love our profession. mean, you know, when I was growing up, it was the dentist that didn’t make medical school that became dentists. You know, did you want to be a doctor? Sure. I did not want to be a doctor, but
I fell into dentistry because I was told to. And I got to tell you, we’re going to get into it, but all the aspects of dentistry, I think the profession is unbelievable. it just, true test of time has improved over year, over year, over year with technology. So it’s really amazing.
Mickey (05:53)
From your early years in dental school, to obviously becoming a pioneer in the field and the restorative world, how did your vision for dentistry evolve? And more so, how did the vision for dentistry evolve through the years of your practice? Because I’m sure the technology’s moving quickly.
Dr. Marc Liechtung (05:57)
Yeah.
Mickey, that’s a bigger question than you even realize because I ended up in a practice in, I’m a New York City guy. I raised my family in New York City asphalt family. You know, we were summering outside the city, but during the year I lived in New York City, I was raised and I love it. My practice was in an area called Lincoln Center where the arts, the ballet, and we saw a lot of artists.
At the beginning of my career and throughout owning a very large, profitable, amazingly great practice, which I had people help me, know, great team, great staff, great doctors, I believed in referring everything to a specialist. And I think when I started out, I believed that, you know, the first order of business was learning how to keep things in-house.
You know, we brought in an endodontic, a Root Canal specialist, a gum specialist, an implant person. You know, if somebody needed a simple Root Canal, we’d be referring it to the Root Canal specialist. I think over time, my whole attitude changed in that, you know, I got involved, as we’ll talk about, with some groups in that I sold groups of practices to different, as we call DSO, larger private equity-owned or backed dental groups.
And I started to see the educational process of young doctors, even middle-aged doctors, where they started learning how to put in implants. I mean, my associate puts in an implant better than a surgeon. He is phenomenal. And I’m saying these continuing education courses and the dollars of it, learning and understanding the business end of dentistry, which anybody that goes out and opens anything, I don’t care if it’s a yoga studio to a…
to a gym, to a dental office, to a psychiatry office. You need to understand the workings of your numbers. And when you dig deep into dentistry, there are many aspects. And I think in the last 20 years, the groups have come out with different benchmarks and different numbers and reports that we could look at our practice. And my change of my mindset was, I bring a specialist in, we’re waiting two weeks.
for that specialist to come in and pay that specialist 50, 60 % of the procedure. But then I have a great general dentist that is in, will get into what I consider a great general dentist, but that could do it as good and do it now and be efficient and make the patient feel like it’s behind them and only pay them 30, 35%. It’s a win-win for everybody. And I keep better doctors. So my mindset has changed. Today’s dentistry,
Mickey (08:41)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Marc Liechtung (08:51)
has so much continuing education, whether online or in the groups or in your neighborhood. So to me, that is the way to grow a business, is to grow what we offer. In other words, if we offer widgets and we don’t make the best widget, well, your business will not thrive in the long run. So that to me is what I’ve learned through the years. You can’t substitute quality, kindness, and care. And that’s what builds a great office.
Mickey (09:21)
Great answer. I’m going to jump back into a little bit later into the snap on smell because I want to know more about it and I’m sure a listener will want to know more about it as well. But before I get there, you’ve introduced a new way of thinking about restorative dentistry with your innovative approach. What do you believe is the most exciting frontier in cosmetic and restorative dentistry today?
Dr. Marc Liechtung (09:39)
Yeah.
Well, I got to say that the greatest frontier is, you know, dental materials. If you drill it down, I mean, the ability, when we first started doing veneers 35, 40, now it was a little before my time, but not a whole lot before my time, the adhesive, the literal glue, you’d be getting calls almost weekly from Mary, Jane, Sue, Betty, Jim, my veneer popped off.
because our ability to salute and cement these things, that’s the first thing. So the ability to adhere to each, to the dentition has become amazing. But also as the companies have become, has evolved, the porcelain has become thinner, the materials are better. We can do a chair side instead of sending it to a lab. So we can help you immediately at the chair using chair side fabricating material to make rounds.
I think the technology has really advanced to the point where if somebody was a gagger, we would have a really hard time making a crown for them. Now we have scanners and different heads. So you can stick the picture, take the picture, take the scan, and no gook goes in the mouth. I think dental materials and I really truly believe one of the reasons I say I love dentistry is because
ago, dentistry was being hit with all this stuff, but the ADA brought on, well dentistry as a community brought on cosmetics and the fastest growing procedure in dentistry has got to be implants. So these are the things that have moved the needle and made it not only easier, but much better results for the cosmetic patient. And that I think has just gone patient to patient. You know, as you do quality, you get quality. So.
I think that has really led to dentistry becoming a more popular boom.
Mickey (11:32)
Awesome, great answer.
Tell me a little bit about the Snap On Smile. What is it? Give me the elevator pitch on it.
Dr. Marc Liechtung (11:35)
Yeah.
I’m
going tell you a story I haven’t told since Las Vegas. The truth of matter is I had a big practice in the city and what bothered me, and I say this to every young doctor and every young entrepreneur, find a problem, find a solution. Don’t just make a product because you think I want to make a product. My problem was I wanted case acceptance of our treatment plans 100%.
If I tell Mary that she needs 18 crowns, two implants, six root canals, and buildups, I wouldn’t get 100 % of that. Not everybody’s spending 30, 40 grand. So I started driving one day and thinking about it and thinking about it. What can I develop? And true story, one morning I get a call from my family that my grandmother, who’s in a nursing home,
had her roommate who had dementia throw her dentures, her partials, in the incinerator. We had family affairs, true story, swear. So I got this call Saturday night. I called my assistant from my office. said, Sylvia, I need you to pack up a box, acrylic. I don’t know what I’m going to need, a hand piece with the hand engine in the lab, all the stuff I needed. And I said, I’m going to my grandmother’s nursing on my coach. Now,
She’s 90 something years old. Her teeth are very small. So they’re almost like they’re drilled down. So I said, I said, I called her Bubby. I said, Bubby, I don’t know. Give me a minute. And I said, well, if I take this piece of acrylic and I start carving teeth, block carved teeth, seven hours later, I made an upper and lower. They looked pretty good. I cemented them over her natural teeth. As I’m driving home, I’m saying, that is what I’m missing.
an appliance that can go over these teeth called my grandmother and thanked her. And I went searching, went to Portland, Oregon to spend a couple of days with a very dear friend, Dr. Kim Cooch, who had a materials business. And he introduced me to crystallized acetyl resin. And I worked with his lab tech in Northern Virginia for an entire summer, learning how to manipulate and work with it.
inject it and thus we started working on a couple of people and it was magical. Magical to the point where I still get hugs and letters and amazing. It is the one thing in my career I felt like it needs me again and I still even though I sold it to Denmat and I did very well and been a great run of people knowing I did it but it’s something that was so dear and near to me.
But as we get on in young doctors and get influenced by different investors, that’s where it went, it went to Denmat. But it was a dream to be able to help so many people. It really was. Yeah.
Mickey (14:31)
is very cool. So
when did you come out with it and when did you sell it?
Dr. Marc Liechtung (14:35)
Yeah,
I introduced it in 2008 and I sold it right at the beginning of 12, three years. You know, it’s funny stories. I had a lot of tough stuff with it. It goes deep. I traveled a lot and I had a lab try to steal it. I had to sue them and I realized that either I get everyone bought into me or I better, I’ll be honest with everyone.
The one thing that always stuck with me is making sure I did not jeopardize my family and my family’s upbringing. And the one thing that I could say when I look back is, I’ve been married for 36 years. I have kids and, you know, my first granddaughter, but we have a very strong home body, home life. I think that is essential. I mean, I know we’re in a profession that has a lot of those
go awry and I think it’s because I remember standing in a I remember standing in Hong Kong in a hotel and the company Denmat called me and said look there are dentists that want to talk to you in Bangkok I said no let me ask you something one dentist would say great get me to Bangkok I remember standing nude on like the 20th floor of somewhere looking out the window in my birthday suit going what why do I have to go to Bangkok
We can’t even get cases. So I said, I want to go home. And I realized then that the entrepreneur, the tiger that walks alone, you have to make that commitment. And that is with everything. And I think I’ve made that commitment in many things, but right then and there, I decided that it’s best family always with me has come first. But we’ve learned as a family to let me walk alone as a tiger and do what I need to do. So.
We’ve come, but that I think has always been on my mind with everything I’ve done. Yeah.
Mickey (16:25)
That’s awesome.
For the young dentists and entrepreneurs who going to be listening to this and in the dental field, what advice would you give them on growing a successful practice while maintaining that work-life balance and being an innovator and leader in your community?
Dr. Marc Liechtung (16:31)
Definitely.
That’s awesome. It’s a great question. Number one, your staff, we’ll call them teammates. Look at you as a leader, a captain, a coach, a manager, a mentor, everything. The way you talk to them, the way you treat them, sets the tone, not only for the day, the week, the month, but the employment. I have somebody who’s worked for me and very dear to me, runs everything. We talk.
And there’s not a morning that goes by that we don’t start the day by saying good morning. So the first thing out there is no matter how our egos run, remember the people around us make us great. We could get better, but they make us great. That’s the first thing. Second thing is it’s within. It’s what we want to do. If you want to learn how to be great, you’re going to be great. Meaning continuing education today is everything.
We have mentors. I’m a mentor to many docs in the group that I’m in now. And they’re like sponges. The ones that aren’t sponges, the ones that don’t use that resource, I could see them fading and then not making it. So the one thing I would say to first, the clinicians that are coming out, embrace what’s out there. These things don’t just happen. You don’t become a really good Crown & Bridge cosmetic person. You don’t know how to do root canals really well.
unless you put the commitment in. Clear aligners, right? Invisalign, OrthoBrain, all that. They’re there to teach you. Take advantage of it. That’s where it is early on in our formative years when we’re out five, six, seven years. Become great. You want to take the lowest insurance? Your community, back to the community, will look at you as the low-end dentist. I think there is a need for low-end dentists.
But personally, if you want to soar in this field, there aren’t a lot of Medicaid or lower end dentists that have stuff to talk about. And I’m not saying it in a negative tone, I really don’t mean that, but I want to see the guys that are putting in quality material. Great cases, beautiful results. Not somebody who build this or that. It’s not important to me. And it shouldn’t be important to the young dentist coming out. Latch on with a mentor who…
to the degree you want to go. If I want to go in that Medicaid group office, there’s a mentor for that. If I want to soar, there’s a mentor for that. Mentorship, it really is important in my opinion.
Mickey (19:11)
That is fantastic advice. So obviously you’ve built practices, you’ve sold practices, you’ve sold businesses, you’ve done well for yourself. From your experience, what marketing strategies or channels do you think dental professionals most overlook when they’re trying to grow their practice?
Dr. Marc Liechtung (19:18)
Mm-hmm.
One word, phone. I think what we’ve gotten out of is literally calling our patients. Oh, let me text them. Let me email them. Let me DM them. I mean, to me, hi Mary, you use WhatsApp? Why not use the phone? Hi Mary, I know you’re coming in tomorrow. I just want to say hi and I’m just confirming. It’s the phone. To me, I think…
People that want to build a practice need to look at the marketing, but the one thing we’re overlooking as we get on with these softwares and an amazing amount of marketing companies out there is the telephone, because it is the most personal. Even a phone call after you’ve done a procedure. You know, do the caring that takes you 10 seconds and will last 10 years.
you might look at dentistry as a commodity as a businessman but the commodity has to be care or else the community is gonna look at you as a and Remember good news travels fast bad news travels faster. So communities are tough You know in New York City I have to come
support myself in a certain way even it’s in a big city like that because if I meet a patient or a patient introduces me to somebody I want them to know that I hold myself to the standards that our practice will deliver for you and I think that is something that people need to remember we are in the service business
Mickey (20:57)
Yep, 100%. It’s interesting that you say that. my, majority of my family is actually in dentistry, believe it or don’t know if knew that or not. Yeah. And so I grew up in a lab when my dad had a lab. So I grew up like carving teeth and having fun. I’m the only one that’s not a dentist in my family, but my brother’s a dentist and I do a lot of marketing for him. And I always talk to him about it. I’m like, man, why aren’t we all…
Dr. Marc Liechtung (20:58)
You know?
Really?
That’s cool, yeah.
Mickey (21:16)
things like that. Because I hear him on the phone all the time on weekends checking in on patients. He’s like, the reason why I don’t automate it is because I care about my patients. I want to hear how their recovery is going. Right? And it’s the same thing that you said. So think that’s what really stands good is from a great dentist.
Dr. Marc Liechtung (21:20)
All right.
Yeah,
I really do and I think that’s going to be something that’s going to be lost soon because of all, as we know, the obvious. But I do think that the ones that can hold onto that give the patients the thought that these people care. And I do think it’s all about care. know, a patient very rarely knows if the crown fits perfectly or not. And if you didn’t care for them, it’ll start getting sensitive quicker than if you called them.
Mickey (21:35)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Dr. Marc Liechtung (21:57)
I promise you, I did that test for 30 years. If you call him, it’ll get worse a lot later. Give yourself a break, make a phone call. But I agree with your brother because when you’re in that, it’s what it’s about. It’s what it’s about.
Mickey (22:04)
Yeah.
Yeah,
100%. As someone who’s achieved great success both clinically and as an entrepreneur, how do you approach balancing that professional life with your personal life, especially with ventures, right? It takes a lot of time, a lot of, you know, guts and time away from your families you were mentioning before. So how do you balance all of it?
Dr. Marc Liechtung (22:28)
Yeah.
Well, first of all, you have somebody that understands that you are an entrepreneur and you, you know, I get the biggest question I get is you still working? And, you know, at some point you work because you really, really don’t want to give it up. You just love it. I mean, I’m young. I’m young in mind, young in body. Thank God. I’m blessed with that. And I think the way you do it is there comes a time when you realize, you know, you’re not going to realize it when you’re 35.
I didn’t realize it when I’m 40. But when I get into my 50s and I look at my family growing and my wife and my friends and I say, you know what? I need to force that time. that happened for me later, I believe. I’ll tell you guys, I think the most impressive people to me were the people that always said, I have an associate in my New York office. I have many offices now. I’m part of it.
My New York main office, the same one I talk about, he’s been with me for over 10 years. He never worked a day on a Friday, never worked more than four days a week. He produces over a million and half dollars a year. He’s phenomenal. He is doing everything I profess. I worship, I give those people so much credit for understanding that my body, my mind, my emotions, my family, mine is Wednesday’s off.
Friday’s off, Saturday and Sunday I won’t. I think that happened to me a little later. I think the beauty of the mentorship again and hearing people ahead of people is don’t hesitate. If you’re gonna do it in four days, you probably do very similar in five days. Take that day, work four, work five, don’t work six, don’t work seven and spend that time because…
I think what I see a lot of times is that we spend so much time in the office, dentists, and I’m going to go out on a limb and say something very crazy, but I always felt that dentistry was a very intimate profession. And I think we as dentists and assistants and hygienists, we’ve entwined a very close quarter, and I think we need to make sure that we have that professionalism and that ability to say work-life balance is incredibly important.
Because once you start looking at your work as your life, things change. People are looked at differently. And I think that could be an issue going forward. I think that is a very strong, how do you do it? You’ve got to set these boundaries. Like you can’t, you know, set boundaries with everything we do in art field. You know, and that’s the way I look at it. You know, it’s a little convoluted, but it means make sure you have the time. Don’t look at work as home.
And let’s do the smart thing and try to keep to that schedule. It’s tough.
Mickey (25:24)
You may have already answered this question, but I’m going to ask it anyways because I think there’s a number of different ways to answer it. Throughout your career, what’s one lesson that you would share with other dentists or entrepreneurs looking to make a lasting impact in the field?
Dr. Marc Liechtung (25:39)
Yeah.
Yeah, mean, passion. Find an issue that you feel you’re passionate about. I know somebody a year ahead of me that’s passionate about geriatric care. What an impact she makes. Always about treating the elderly at home. It’s not the, I can’t, I don’t know the numbers, but you know, it’s just passionate. If it’s about developing a product that just implants.F
different types, different, you know, there are people in front of us that develop root canal systems. If there’s passion and if there’s a need, find it and always be, you know, be fair to yourself. I mean, you know, I don’t think Snap-On came because I said, I need something, I need something, I need something. Snap-On came because I saw an issue and I wanted to cure that issue. And I think that’s the one thing dentistry is still relatively young.
We’re introducing new things, AI, rotary instrumentation, different things that you would never have thought of. There are issues. Dentists that are passionate about this field come up with great solutions. And that’s really what it’s about. I I always say, do the right thing and the money comes. We have 32 teeth, gums, and bone. If we can’t find the problem, we stink.
I think it’s really about that. You could go in and say, God, I’ve got to pay Johnny’s school. Next person that comes in is getting three crowns. I don’t care where they are. The other thing you say is, I want to start marketing a little more and getting some more people in so Johnny’s school is not a problem. I look at it as the latter. And I try to remind myself every day that people trust us with their health. And I think that’s, you know.
That’s what sets me, gives me peace of mind that I could sleep at night is really thinking and I really believe I’m doing the right thing. So that’s really what it is. you know, multiple practices also came about.
Mickey (27:32)
Yeah, let’s keep sleeping.
Dr. Marc Liechtung (27:41)
You know, I thought, I got nervous from a financial standpoint, being in a business family, that my hands were the only way I was going to make money. Then I said, this practice is the only way I’m going to make money. Then I found a couple of offices that were a little easier to run. I could give them a little time to build them up. That was making money out of three, four offices. So I do think that the groups are here.
They add a lot. And from my career, I’ve been very, very fortunate in not being afraid to take that jump and leap. If you perfect it or you believe you got a practice that you think, you know, you may want to say, first of all, you can sell it to a DSL or a DPO for a great exit, but also you may say, I want to try another one. And that’s what transpired for me. And I love it because you’re running a real professional business.
Mickey (28:35)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Marc Liechtung (28:36)
Practice, business. A little different and a little more coming at you if you like it. Some people don’t handle it well, some people we’re finding handle it amazingly well. And I think that separates people. Again, it’s something you have to be able to do and want to do and then surround yourself with really good people.
Mickey (28:55)
Yeah. How many
practices do you currently own?
Dr. Marc Liechtung (28:59)
That’s a good question. So about 14, 15, but there’s a group, I sold a group to a DPO named Guardian Dentistry Partners. I’m one of the managing partners in 10 locations, meaning.
Mickey (29:12)
Is that
similar to like an Aspen Dental Group?
Dr. Marc Liechtung (29:14)
Well,
Guardian has a different model. Aspen’s franchise, but Guardian is everyone we buy is a partner in their practice. They remain a percentage partner. And it really is run by the doctors with the help of the operational team. And it’s heavy, heavy, operational, which gives us the ability to really understand what it means when certain numbers per hour of production or because people would say, you’re just money hungry.
Mickey (29:24)
Okay.
Dr. Marc Liechtung (29:42)
But what it says to me is if I look at a doctor that’s producing $200 an hour.
And then another doctor, before or after that doctor that’s producing $700, $800 an hour, I’ve got to look at the x-rays and I’ve got to see, Doc, Doc A, you’re producing $200 an hour. Did you miss this decay? Do you know there’s a root canal? Are you comfortable doing root canals? Should we get you better trained? We can intercept the issue earlier because of the numbers. Years ago it was, hey, my growth is good. My net is even better than I thought.
The heck with what the doctors are doing, let’s keep going. But we could have found ways of growing it, which would have meant people making more money, the doctors being more satisfied. It was harder to keep people then, in my opinion. Now, if you educate them and feed them, they’re going to love it and then guide them. And with these numbers and all the software that picks out and really dissects the practice itself, you really could learn from these numbers.
How’s hygiene doing? Are they diagnosing gum disease? Are your dentists diagnosing fillings or are just going for the big kill? We don’t want them to overlook the preventative care. So these are the things that I feel from a standpoint of quality, this has really shown us as a profession that the science of numbers still mean a lot even in the healthcare field. Because we could train the weaker doctors.
Or find a weak doctor that’s really just cannot diagnose. Maybe doesn’t belong in this type of practice. So we can make decisions and vice versa, we may find somebody who’s phenomenal. His numbers are soaring. Let’s give them what they want. You know, you want this? Great. You need another assistant? That’s great. So I think what’s transpired in dentistry, like many fields, is all this, I don’t even think it’s AI, it’s just the software packages that come now can really give you the information. It would take you
Thousands and thousands of dollars of accounting fees to figure out now we get it with a click of a button I think it’s pretty special right now. It’s a lot of fun You know a lot of fun to look at that and I’m proud that I You know, I’ve morphed into something like that in that I could dissect that or dire, you know Look at that and then really evaluate the doctors Progress or lack of I’m very proud of a couple of doctors that have really progressed
Mickey (31:44)
Yeah.
That is very good.
Dr. Marc Liechtung (32:09)
when it was looking a little bleak, but they understood and they started using the resources that you could use, like just simply sending an x-ray or simply discussing a case. And I think today with that, it makes it easier for guys, chief clinical guys like me to oversee doctors by getting a picture in my phone. And then we talk about the verbiage and how to present it. And you do that two or three times. Now your young doctor has…
Mickey (32:28)
Yeah.
Dr. Marc Liechtung (32:36)
the wherewithal of that thing, I talked about communication, that it puts that patient at ease. So for me, it’s, I feel like my dad did a great thing when he told me I couldn’t go into dentistry, and go into his business, because I feel like I found my little pond, and whatever happens in the future, and it’s not because of the money I earned, because I’m a beast, you know what mean? I wanna leave nothing on the table, you know, like anyone else, there’s never.
Mickey (32:49)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Dr. Marc Liechtung (33:03)
But, but I love what I do. So I enjoy it every day, whether I’m in my shorts or in my suit going out to see people. I’m very lucky that I enjoy what I do. So it has helped.
Mickey (33:15)
between management to practices and kind of in office clinical work, how often are you, what’s your split like right now?
Dr. Marc Liechtung (33:23)
Yeah, you know, when Guardian came along, was phasing out of the… Truth be told, I had an episode in Chianti Vineyards in Italy. Huh? I was with my family. Unbelievable. And I had a youngest son. And we went to the Chianti Vineyards to take a little scooter ride, five of us. But the youngest one, at the time, they said to him, Ross, you have to go on the back of somebody.
Mickey (33:36)
You know who are?
Dr. Marc Liechtung (33:52)
So of course I’m the dad. He goes, I’m not going with you dad, I’m going with Paul. So he jumps on Paul. Sure enough, knowing me, I hit the wrong brake, I flipped, I fell on my elbows and I wrestled a little bit. So I knew I had to stop, but it did break a couple of ribs and busted up my left elbow, which caused me some problems with my hand. And in dentistry and medicine, as you all know, dentistry is what I know. So as you approach a certain year,
If you don’t take your benefits or your disability, you’re out of shit’s luck. You’re looking at a very short disability term and if you take it before a certain term, then you have it for life. So was coming to that end and my broker was telling me this story and I said, look, I do more managing. So I really loved clinical dentistry, but I stopped.
What I fell in love with was the ability in a given day to touch six, seven, eight dentists and all their patients. So it is cliche to say that, but I am doing that and I overlook treatment plans. And then I evaluate practices to acquire and keep moving the group forward and looking like these groups are going to be the best you can find is the only goal I want.
And I feel that it’s hard to do both. It almost is like a snap on in the sense that I feel so lucky that I could help people with the snap on.
Coming back to that, I remember when I got a call once from a doctor in California, and I’m in New York, and he said, I think you did a snap-on for this gentleman who had a methadone, who’s a meth mouth, serious drug addict. And he went to a diner with his family, so proud of his smile, and he put his snap-on down to rinse it. He put it on the table, and the waitress came and cleaned the table and threw the snap-on in the bin.
The gentleman, the drug abuser, went nuts and they had to take him to sedatum. And then the doctor was asking me how quick can I get a snap on? I said, two weeks. He goes, two weeks? I can’t wait two weeks. But the urgency that these people needed it was developed to be a frenzy. And in one way, I was so sad I couldn’t deliver it quicker because we weren’t automated at the time. But the other way, I was saying myself, wow.
In just a short period of time, people are learning to use this for life, to go out, they can’t function. And I really, just like dentists, I mean, I feel like the one thing dentistry is lacking is the ability to empathize with our patients and to say things that they understand is a sense of urgency to fix their mouth and their health. You know, I hear doctors say, well, you have a cavity, it’s getting deep, but…
Do you think it’s urgent? No, I mean, we could take a look at it. No, it’s urgent because we don’t know how long it’s going to take to get into the nerve and I don’t want to predict. So, you know, these are the things by explaining to patients what would happen if they don’t do it is the key. And to me, the number one key in being successful is passion, but also learning how to treatment plan and delivering quality to your patients. You know.
Mickey (36:48)
Yeah.
Dr. Marc Liechtung (37:08)
That’s the way I look at it. In any arena that you are, I don’t care if you’re Main Street Medicaid, I don’t care if you’re Main Street insurance, I don’t care if you’re Main Street private, whatever you think you are and port yourself and hold yourself to, deliver the best you can because eventually the crap catches up with you. And that’s why like dentistry as compared to golf. You ever play golf, Mickey?
Mickey (37:10)
No, I agree.
I play golf multiple times a week. Too much.
Dr. Marc Liechtung (37:35)
obviously I’m not hitting the ball like I used to, but which is really sad. But like golf, as you bring the club back and you square the club, your hips, your follow through, if you open your face, the ball’s going right. If you close the face too quickly, the ball’s hooked into the water.
Mickey (37:39)
have to come down to New York.
Dr. Marc Liechtung (37:53)
I never played golf before. But I’m kidding. But it’s like dentistry. If you start doing things that aren’t the right way, you’re cutting corners, you’re gonna find those corners come back to haunt you. If the crown doesn’t fit, you must not cement, even though you wanna get paid, because you’re gonna pay in spades if you do. So I’m just saying from experience, everything has happened to me in my field. I could sit here and tell you,
from fires to extortion to pot, everything. It kind of makes me me, but everything that could happen from selling my practice the first time to a large DSO, being threatened by doctors because they thought I got paid too much to beat them that showed I owed them nothing, and then buying that practice back because the DSO failed and buying it for 8 % of what they paid me. Everything has happened, built it up and sold it again.
I think that’s because good people around me keeping me sane, but I have passion to develop and to build and I don’t even think I’m there. mean, a guy, you know, I’m sitting here in the podcast world and I’m looking and I’m saying, I don’t even know if this is really something I feel that people are benefiting from. I think they should. I think we have a lot of knowledge to give and…
You know, at Dentistry Beyond the Numbers, I really teach general dentists really the ability to do five things that will create an amazing amount of dentistry in their office. And if they can develop the root canals, the clear aligners, the bridge work, the extractions and the implants, they’re never gonna want for anybody in their chair, because everybody that walks in, they’re capable of doing it. In today’s world, we are capable of learning it.
So if I was anything under 50, or even older, I’d be gravitating to this concept. Because today’s world, the periodontist should do periodontal things. Tough cases, ridge augmentation, sinus lifts. If GPs can do that, great. But if they can’t, that’s who you do it to. Root canal specialists should do retreats and curved roots and torturous teeth. They shouldn’t do straight centrals and laterals. This is free. It’s great.
Mickey (39:43)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Dr. Marc Liechtung (40:11)
I mean,
that’s the way I feel. And I feel that because GP shouldn’t be a referral source. That has been a tremendous sea change for me. And I think it’s happening to the industry. So, you know, that’s where I think it’s going.
Mickey (40:25)
Yeah, I agree. Looking ahead, what excites you most about the future of restorative dentistry and how do you plan to continue to shape that future?
Dr. Marc Liechtung (40:26)
Yeah.
Yeah. I mean, the future of cosmetic dentistry, think, is letting people see what they’re going to look like. I think these preview smile softwares, I know it sounds, I think with the advent of AI, with things that we can do, people will see in an instant, milliminit, milliminit, I call it, because in several seconds, we’re going to be able to see Mary or Jane come in with natty-looking teeth and…
Mickey (40:45)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Marc Liechtung (41:02)
show them what they’re going to look like and see the results. And I do believe that our ability to deliver scanned impressions and make it easier on patients, think dentistry has become less painless. I’m sorry, more painless, less painful, easier access to doing cases because people are understanding what things are and they want, they come in asking for cosmetics or, you know, better result with their mouth than they’ve had. And I do.
I do think that we as a profession are getting better. You know, we’re out there. So what do I think the future of cosmetics and dental dentistry or dentistry on a whole? Well, I do think from a business standpoint, I think now that we’re into the new 2025 and several days from a new administration, I confidence is going to be up. And I do believe that the M &A market where consolidation is going to continue and, you know,
It’s really tough being a young dentist coming out and competing with marketing dollars with groups.
I spoke about this in my last podcast. I met a young dentist in a diner right outside the New York show and he’s a little lost. He always wanted to be a business owner. He always wanted to own his own business.
And now we seeing, I don’t know, know, 37 % of dentists under the age of 20 or 20 years and under experienced dentists are part of a group, 37%. And that is soaring because it’s going to get bigger and it’s going to be consolidated. So to me, if I’m owning a business, I’m gearing that business for the sale. Unfortunately or fortunately, what that means is that puts you in the ability to do quality.
Mickey (42:31)
Yeah, it’s only going to get bigger.
Dr. Marc Liechtung (42:46)
Watch your numbers, guide you with all the things we just discussed. We’ll put you in a position for an EBITDA or profit, operational profit. What’s drilled down after everything you’ve taken with your salary doctors. I just want to make sure the owners of practices understand whatever it takes to replace you is coming out of that. That operational profit, and that’s deeper. mean, you can look me up if you want to discuss it, but you know.
That operational profit is what you should be aiming for because there’s gonna be a day that big group comes knocking and you’re gonna say, you can give me this. I’ll be nuts not to take it. And that’s what happened to me.
Mickey (43:28)
No one else
is going to give it to you, right?
Dr. Marc Liechtung (43:30)
Who else
is going to give it to you? And what you’re doing is you’re taking cash off the table. And in most instances, you’re living with 35 % of what you produce with a bank full of money. And now you can do what you want to do. And that’s the way I looked at it. I always felt it was important to take, you know, it’s like playing Texas Hold’em. I like to take cash off the table because I think that’s what we owe it to either ourselves or our family or whoever we’re going to work for. You know, me, ego, I’m going to stick. then
COVID hits, my God. So there’s a lot to it today. Obviously, if you’re a business owner though, you’re a business owner. And I say, go for it. Because what profession do you know that has a built-in exit? We in dentistry guys and gals, we have a built-in exit. Just call your local broker or a group and say, hey, could you come look at my business? And you could sell it.
Mickey (44:22)
Yeah.
Dr. Marc Liechtung (44:24)
If it’s right, and if it’s not right, well now you know I’m 74, my practice is dwindling, and a group won’t touch me. So what would I do? Well, work it till you’re ready, then that’s it. Sell it for parts. But you’ve had a great life. You just overrun it by 15 years. 60, 62, and under, think about it. Because that’s where they’re gonna go. You know, and the other way is…
You know, let’s face it, when you’re 66, 68, 70, it’s a lot older than me, but I’m in my low 60s, but I’m also happy that I sort of see my exit. But what I’m saying is that these people are seeing the world has gone by them because every six months the DSOs or the DPOs change their benchmark or their parameters. Now we wanted a million dollars of operational profit. Now we’ll take it lower.
I want it 60 years old. Now I’ll take it 50, you know, every whatever. We as dentists and dental business people, because like I said before, I don’t care what you’re doing for a living, even if you’re a dog walker, you know what your cost is. And that’s important. I use 20 pooper scooper bags. You know, everyone knows their business and I mean it. And I just think you sit down with somebody and open your eyes. I remember looking.
at a practice in Jersey and I asked the doctor, so how many new patients did you get last month? He goes, you know, Margaret knows that. I said, how many crowns did you do last month? Margaret will have that number. Like the doctor knew nothing. And all I’m saying is the days, because I don’t know who Margaret is and she’ll never listen to me and she doesn’t remember me, never met me, but I believe there could be a time when Margaret might be needing a little extra funds. And God forbid do I ask, we need to open our eyes.
We need to understand our business. And if you understand more of your business, you’ll have a better exit. You certainly will have a better career because we all made mistakes like that. I just don’t want to make it again. You know? Yeah. That’s what it is.
Mickey (46:27)
Well said. Well said.
I got one last question here and then we can wrap things up. you know, for the aspiring dentists, we’ve spoken a lot about them and entrepreneurs looking to fall in your footsteps. The last piece of advice that you’re going to leave them with, if it’s the last thing that you can say and, you know, tomorrow you leave the earth, God forbid, what is it?
Dr. Marc Liechtung (46:49)
Believe in yourself. I mean, let’s face it. We go out there and we as doctors, we formulate a plan for a dentist. We formulate a plan for a practice. We formulate a plan for two or three practices. Believe in yourself that you’re going to deliver the goods as far as quality, as far as empathy, and as far as respect to the team that builds you. I’d be nothing without the people around me. I wouldn’t know.
anything. And I think that is just don’t forget the people and what’s important. What’s important is we keep hammering it home and it sounds redundant but to me it’s what it is. You if you’re walking going yeah, you don’t keep them. Then you get that revolving door and we all know what happens. I just think you got to stick to the core. I’ve been blessed to be able to stick to my core. I want to do quality. I want to teach quality. I want to talk quality. And I want to grow quality.
And I think we’ve done that, you know. Almost every practice we’ve acquired in Guardian in New York, I think it’s every now, has gone up in the last two years. Has gone up considerably in the last two years. So I’m very proud of that, and I’m very proud that I don’t lose a doctor. I don’t lose a doctor unless we ask that doctor to leave. And I believe it’s because I preach, I do what I preach. You know, if you’re a doctor, I respect the heck out of you. And if you treat people right, I respect you.
so much and I just think that’s what it is. Things will come. Do the right thing. Grow your knowledge. Grow your hands, your armamentarium. Latch on to some mentors if you don’t have a group and if you have a group, I’m sure you have mentors and if you don’t, call me. I’d love to see if we can help but bottom line is we’re in a great profession. You can dictate your hours. You can dictate your days. You can dictate your procedures.
To the extent you want to take it, that’s what this is there for. And I think that’s the lesson. If you want to be a homemaker, whether male or female, and you want to work two days, do it. Do the best you can. If you want to be a rock star and just take no prisoners and work like some of us worked, do it. It’s there for you. So I really am blessed that I found this profession in a real, secure this way, but spent a lot of days crying after that.
scolding but or Realistic comment, but it’s been great and I wouldn’t have done it any differently. I’m that’s not true I would have done it a little differently, but I’m happy I did it and I really appreciate you and the questions You’re very easy to talk to Mickey. So I appreciate it You
Mickey (49:28)
Thank you so much,
listeners
and our viewers today, Dr. Mark’s profiles are all going to be linked below. If you have any questions, I’m sure he’ll love to help you out. Like tongue.
Dr. Marc Liechtung (49:36)
The last name is Liketong.
Liketong, great name for a dentist, but very hard to pronounce. But I thank you so much again. I appreciate it. All the
Mickey (49:43)
Awesome. Thank you so much.
